The terms of the US's surrender in the Iran war are stark.
$300B paid to Iran. Recognizing that after the expiration of this MOU, Iran may begin taking fees for passing thru the strait. The US eliminating ALL sanctions on Iran. Iran gets to have a nuclear program. The unfreezing of all Iranian assets.
Can't wait to see what else we give up as negotiations continue.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/text-iran-us-memorandum-understandin...
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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.
We are in "Imperial Overstretch" --
by omahadomer, Saturday, June 20, 2026, 08:37 (38 days ago) @ domer.mq
a term coined, I think, by Yale historian Paul Kennedy in "The Rise and Fall of Great Powers." The phenomenon (I'd call it a "theory" but it's too well established to be called just that) is that great powers expand past the point where their underlying productivity and capacity can maintain their commitments and begin to retract -- sometimes in spectacular collapses. The Mongols, the Romans, the Ottamans, the Dutch, the French, the British, the Soviet Union -- they all went splat.
The best you can hope for is an orderly contraction. But inevitably there comes a foolish leader who thinks he can restore the empire to its former glory and fails utterly.
We have met the enemy and they is Trump and MAGA (with apologies to Pogo).
Despite Trump's isolationist rhetoric, his underlying promise was that he'd restore the U.S. to the height of its post-WWII dominance on the world stage. Being a man utterly without a sense of history (consider, for example, that "America First" was a slogan perpetuated by pro-German Americans who wanted to keep the U.S. out of WWII) he inevitably was going to fall into the trap of thinking he could project dominance just through military might.
The only surprise to me is that it took this long. But it's not a surprise that he picked the worst possible place in the world -- the Middle East. Not that we'll know, but 500 years from now the tribalism there will still be going on.
It would have been so much better just to have stayed out of it, because he exposed America's soft underbelly. Iran is emboldened because we lack the resources and will to, for example, keep the Strait of Hormuz open. That would have required a ground invasion and even that would have either failed (Afghanistan) or been insanely expensive in lives and money (Iraq) with mixed results.
This MOU will ultimately be meaningless. The fool that is Trump is now hearing it even from GOP congressional sycophants that this is a horrible deal, even from our weakened perspective.
We'll inevitably walk away with out metaphorical tail between our legs.
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"Somewhere in Middle America"
He would have done better to just skulk away.
by domer.mq
, Saturday, June 20, 2026, 19:36 (37 days ago) @ omahadomer
Just claim "we won," let his MAGA talking heads all back him up, and just leave. Iran's going to find a way to have control of the strait no matter what. At least if he'd just left he wouldn't be making promises far worse than the JCPOA while getting far less.
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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.
We tried that.
by nedhead
, Sunday, June 21, 2026, 01:11 (37 days ago) @ domer.mq
If we just walk away, then Hormuz stays closed to all traffic not approved by Iran.
Which is the case right now.
by domer.mq
, Sunday, June 21, 2026, 13:53 (36 days ago) @ nedhead
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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.
Sustainable for months, probably not longer.
by nedhead
, Sunday, June 21, 2026, 14:38 (36 days ago) @ domer.mq
And on both sides. It's not like Iran would happily just do nothing.
I’m surprised that anyone thinks this likely would’ve all
by Joe I
, Sunday, June 21, 2026, 14:20 (36 days ago) @ domer.mq
played out any differently than it has to date, given the parties involved and the utter overabundance of self-interest and self-preservation amongst all.
I thought it would go badly --
by omahadomer, Sunday, June 21, 2026, 21:10 (36 days ago) @ Joe I
I just didn't think this badly. I figured that Trump would find some bullsh*t offramp about a couple of weeks in that would satisfy his MAGA base.
But the price of hubris and incompetence was even higher than I imagined.
In an IQ sense, Hegseth is far from an idiot. He went to Princeton. I'm hardly an expert in the military but his highest rank was as a major. That's far below the rank where you're in charge of big-stage strategy. At most you learn tactics to execute someone else's strategy.
It's about like taking a manager of an Apple store and making her a really important VP of the company without a competent CEO.
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"Somewhere in Middle America"
Hegseth’s biggest challenge isn’t his IQ
by atxND, Monday, June 22, 2026, 07:42 (36 days ago) @ omahadomer
edited by atxND, Monday, June 22, 2026, 08:09
But rather judgment. Maybe it was the alcohol or maybe he hit his head too many times in college, but his prefrontal cortex seems to have ceased developing around the time he discovered pro wrestling. He may be smart in the academic sense, but in every other sense he’s like a one-dimensional teenager. No amount of traditional intelligence will overcome those kinds of deficiencies.
It’s also likely why his personal life was a failure and he never accomplished anything professionally beyond being on TV, despite his Ivy League pedigree.
Edit: I think this provides a pretty decent critique of Pete’s competence and maybe more critically, his lack of leadership acumen.
All show, no go. https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/comments/1jljfk2/whats_the_deal_with_pete_hegseth_am_...
he was in my cousin’s platoon in Iraq
by Jay, San Diego, Monday, June 22, 2026, 10:53 (35 days ago) @ atxND
My cousin is a West Pointer/ranger/etc. I’m not at liberty to share his opinion of PH. Make of that what you will.
Douglas C. Neidermeyer, Sergeant at Arms.
by San Pedro
, Tuesday, June 23, 2026, 16:09 (34 days ago) @ Jay
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Wouldn't he be more like Stratton?
by nedhead
, Tuesday, June 23, 2026, 17:31 (34 days ago) @ San Pedro
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I think we all take your meaning.
by NDinVA
, Yorktown, VA, Tuesday, June 23, 2026, 15:02 (34 days ago) @ Jay
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I rate his Ivy-intelligence score at 0.87 DeSantis
by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, June 22, 2026, 09:32 (35 days ago) @ atxND
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One of the beauties of grad school is meeting Ivy Leaguers
by atxND, Monday, June 22, 2026, 10:19 (35 days ago) @ KGB
in an academic setting and realizing some people just peaked in high school.
One of the beauties of meeting Ivy League law grads
by omahadomer, Monday, June 22, 2026, 18:03 (35 days ago) @ atxND
is that a good number of them think their poop doesn't stink, but they are ineffectual lawyers.
I never considered applying to law schools outside the University of California. With "tuition" set at about $650 per semester and wanting to be in California I never gave any thought to applying to fancy private schools on the East Coast.
But summer clerking in LA, good Lord were those kids from the Ivy League (particularly Yale) clueless. I don't know what they got taught in their first year but it wasn't law.
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"Somewhere in Middle America"
Are these two paragraphs distinguishing energy v. weapons?
by Grantland, y'allywood, Friday, June 19, 2026, 06:16 (39 days ago) @ domer.mq
"The Islamic Republic of Iran reaffirms that it shall not procure or develop nuclear weapons. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran have agreed to resolve the disposition of stockpile enriched material pursuant to a mechanism that will be mutually agreed upon in accordance with the schedule mentioned in paragraph seven, with the minimum methodology to be down blending on site under the supervision of the IAEA. The two parties also agreed to discuss the issue of enrichment and other mutually agreed matters related to the Islamic Republic of Iran’s nuclear needs, based on a satisfactory framework being agreed upon in the final deal. The final deal will confirm the provisions of this paragraph. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran acknowledge the critical importance of the nuclear issues above mentioned and express their intention to immediately address these issues in the negotiations in order to achieve mutual agreement on them."
"Pending the final deal, the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran agree to maintain the status quo. The Islamic Republic of Iran will maintain the current status quo of its nuclear program, and the United States of America will not impose any distinctions and will not deploy additional forces in the region."
And what are the actual and practical implications?
Sounds like they went easy on us
by fightinamish
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 19:51 (39 days ago) @ domer.mq
edited by fightinamish, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 19:56
If it were me I'd be demanding war crimes tribunals for all senior American government and military officials. Ah well, can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I heard someone describe it as late-empire rome
by MattG, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 12:33 (39 days ago) @ domer.mq
Announcing peace with Persia on the same day you hold gladiator fights in front of the emperor’s home to celebrate his birthday
What a joke!
by oviedoirish
, Oviedo, Florida, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 12:32 (39 days ago) @ domer.mq
It really is like an unconditional surrender by us.
I wonder if his dementia/narcissism blocks him from realizing how bad a deal this is? And what a failure he is? Or do you think he knows?
What does the $300B buy us?
by San Pedro
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 09:41 (39 days ago) @ domer.mq
A mutually beneficial relationship with Iran (opening of the country to US companies, etc., access to resources, assurances that Iran will stop funding terrorist organizations)?
Trump is giving up quite a lot and seemingly securing little. Am I missing anything?
I'd like to know exactly WHOSE $300Billion that is.
by BillyGoat
, At Thanksgiving with Joe Bethersontin, Friday, June 19, 2026, 09:12 (38 days ago) @ San Pedro
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Mine. Yours. And everyone else's.
by Chris, Raleigh, NC, Friday, June 19, 2026, 10:10 (38 days ago) @ BillyGoat
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"F--- everyone who isn't us."
#Team128
Just think though, Musk cold give $300 billion to Iran
by NDinVA
, Yorktown, VA, Friday, June 19, 2026, 18:56 (38 days ago) @ Chris
and still have over a trillion dollars left.
Then he could yank the SEC around a little bit
by Regular Joseph
, Friday, June 19, 2026, 21:07 (38 days ago) @ NDinVA
and it would appear right back!
Me too.
by San Pedro
, Friday, June 19, 2026, 09:15 (38 days ago) @ BillyGoat
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Some GOP nitwit used the term "Peace in our time"
by Jack
, Friday, June 19, 2026, 09:03 (38 days ago) @ San Pedro
I couldn't believe it, but there it was in a tweet.
If someone has their knee on your neck
by atxND, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 19:08 (39 days ago) @ San Pedro
Go on all you want about how you’re the bigger and more powerful man, but you’re going to do what that person says.
It’s that, and nothing more.
Peace?
by nedhead
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 18:37 (39 days ago) @ San Pedro
There was not a better alternative. The ceasefire would at some point soon threaten the global economy. Going back to war would be even worse.
The $300 billion presumably isn't from the US. Maybe we will never see NOEM, sad!
The regional powers will have to find a new stability and power balance, perhaps with a much lighter presence from the US. Normalized relations between Iran and the US would help.
There are other benefits of ending this destructive war. I hope that the peace holds.
Don’t pull the thang out unless you plan to bang
by atxND, Friday, June 19, 2026, 19:47 (38 days ago) @ nedhead
edited by atxND, Friday, June 19, 2026, 19:51
If you’ve committed to a military strategy to remove nuclear capabilities from Iran, at least see that through.
Guy pulled out his piece, got shot at, dropped his gun and pissed his pants. I’ll never favor war over peace, but once you commit to war… commit to winning it.
fight the civil war until
by Regular Joseph
, Friday, June 19, 2026, 21:21 (38 days ago) @ atxND
edited by Regular Joseph, Friday, June 19, 2026, 21:28
you end racism in the South.
it's not an achievable outcome, unless you go harder than Gaza and "obliterate the civilization", which should be obviously unjustifianle. The bombs we already dropped are morally contemptible. There were no achievable outcomes when this thing began, which anyone with a brain was saying. All Trump and the US can do is cut our losses
Oh, I probably agree with you ultimately
by atxND, Saturday, June 20, 2026, 06:33 (38 days ago) @ Regular Joseph
Which is why you don’t go to war in the first place.
And I’m glad nobody else will die for this moron’s imprudence, vanity and impulsivity. There’s a good reason a lot of very smart people didn’t want to go to war with Iran and why it took a special kind of idiot before it would happen.
But in terms of negotiations, you have to get more than a promise to try to try on the nuclear program, even if it means you have to take some additional painful steps to put yourself in a better negotiating position. This is where the taco/coward in Trump comes into play. He’s all hardo when the missiles are flying and the flag is waving and the boys are dropping sorties, but when pressed he becomes a scared little boy. Maybe that’s for the best, but given the choice between being dumb and scared, it’s hard to choose both.
The better alternative...
by domer.mq
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 19:50 (39 days ago) @ nedhead
Was to not fall for the "Israel says they're going to strike, so we'd better do it" trick that Israel has been trying to pull since at least Bill Clinton was president. The better alternative was to not do the thing that every expert warned about because every expert, including in our own military, knew what Iran would do as a response.
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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.
Sure, but we can't go back in time.
by nedhead
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 19:52 (39 days ago) @ domer.mq
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Was Hiroshima a tolerable outcome for Japan
by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Friday, June 19, 2026, 05:34 (39 days ago) @ nedhead
bc they couldn't go back in time and un-bomb Pearl Harbor?
I know that's an absurd comparison, but this. is. what. Trump. does. All the time. Creates domestic or global disasters by Dunning-Krugering his way thru a second stint at being The Most Powerful Person In The World and then puts out fires no other president would have started in a clumsy, half-assed and typically expensive fashion.
I don't understand this line of argument.
by nedhead
, Friday, June 19, 2026, 06:07 (39 days ago) @ KGB
I'm not now nor have I ever defended the war in Iran. Neither did I ever support the US pulling out of the JCPOA, nor of the Europeans for following along. It is not surprising at all that the war led to a pretty crappy position for the US.
Given that shitty position, this is the best option. I'm happy to see a plausible path for peace, and I hope that the peace holds. The alternative, which still may happen, would be far worse.
The reparations paid would be obscene
by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Friday, June 19, 2026, 11:17 (38 days ago) @ nedhead
edited by KGB, Friday, June 19, 2026, 12:36
and none of this will hold anyway bc Israel has the ability to keep the situation aflame. Trump and Vance's public comments belittling and castigating them will merely compel Netanyahu to continue bombing to prove their agency & power and so we kick the can down the road.
Trump is not the least bit interested in peace or resolution. He is simply bored with this war, and the MOU he signed is the equivalent of him paying blood money to make a lawsuit go away. Make no mistake that he effectively washed his hands of the entire conflict in Versailles (dumbfuck misunderstands history yet again) and will blame everyone else, his own administration included, for any negative developments related to this going forward. "Not my problem, I signed the deal", you can expect to hear him say often over the coming months/years.
Would you rather try to keep the cease fire indefinitely,
by nedhead
, Friday, June 19, 2026, 15:43 (38 days ago) @ KGB
continue with the missile war, or have a ground invasion? These are the options.
As was obvious and we've already seen, Israel will do its best to undermine any agreement. Hezbollah may as well. I think that either Lebanon will need to be written out of the agreement, or that the US will need to split from Israel in some way.
NB: we do not have details on the $300 billion. We also don't know what form it will take. My guess is that it's coming mostly from UAE, with contributions from the Saudis and others, and that it's contingent on mixing the enriched uranium back to low levels.
I would rather that the inflamed hemorrhoid in charge
by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Friday, June 19, 2026, 16:32 (38 days ago) @ nedhead
edited by KGB, Friday, June 19, 2026, 16:40
didn't take every opportunity to threaten, demean or belittle the adversary with which he's supposed to be negotiating. Someone with even a modicum of diplomacy skills could extricate us from this Chinese fucking finger trap on better terms. He is surely the worst "dealmaker" I've ever come across in my natural-born life. He is terrible at literally everything other than suing people/businesses.
The problem is that our baseline at this point is to expect the worst behavior possible from King Shit and then shrug our shoulders about a menu of depressingly meager outcomes. It doesn't have to be like this!
He’s already started his Throw JD Vance Under the Bus tour
by Joe I
, Friday, June 19, 2026, 14:42 (38 days ago) @ KGB
Shocking it’s actually taken this long.
It buys us Trump’s attempt at development deals
by Joe I
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 12:21 (39 days ago) @ San Pedro
to personally gain some of that $300B in construction funds. That’s not nothing (For him at least).
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Its helps secure Iran’s new young extremist leader.
by Mark, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 10:00 (39 days ago) @ San Pedro
Dont forget, but this essentially sets Iran’s people up for decades of atrocities to come.
This is like an -infinity own goal.
Its literally like, “What else could the US give Iran and get nothing in return for?”
By every criteria this is worse than before Trump started this war for Netanyahu.
It really makes me wonder how Israel allowed Trump to f this up so much other than it gave cover to allow Israel to keep committing genocide in a few countries for quite a few more months.
This doesn’t address my question.
by San Pedro
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 12:19 (39 days ago) @ Mark
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It buys us not having our Oil reserves go to 0 next month.
by domer.mq
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 09:53 (39 days ago) @ San Pedro
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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.
Our oil reserves are nearly empty?
by San Pedro
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 12:18 (39 days ago) @ domer.mq
Sometimes I can’t tell if you guys are being serious/using hyperbole to make a point. I thought Trump’s comments about 4 weeks were a bald faced lie to sell this deal.
as I have learned recently, it's a complex question
by domer.mq
, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 12:29 (39 days ago) @ San Pedro
Yes, the SPR was getting critically low. I think in a sense, Trump wasn't lying, b/c in a few weeks we could well see truthful headlines that the SPR had been tapped.
However, there are other means of "recovering" oil that the nation could use. But good luck getting most of the nation past the initial headlines.
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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.
I guess taking over Venezuela
by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Thursday, June 18, 2026, 12:54 (39 days ago) @ domer.mq
Wasn't the boon to US oil production/reserves that was initially advertised?
I know I'm not going to be alive when the definitive history of this period of our country is written, but I sure as hell would love to read it.