Deep Crossing Route

I recently started updating my 2005 stats - primarily adding pass routes -- and I'm seeing one huge difference between '05 and '08.

Here's a good write-up of the deep crossing route from Smartfootball. http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/01/deep-crossing-route-larry-fitzgerald.html

Not counting the four games I still have to review, Quinn was 7 of 7 for 174 yards. Pretty damn remarkable.

In 2008, we didn't even attempt one of these throws. That's not to say that we didn't try to, but just that if we called a play with a deep crossing route, Clausen threw it to somebody else.

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If you check it out around the 0:40 mark, there is clearly a deep cross being run by Shelton, but Quinn goes deep to Stovall in the endzone.

http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=140365;d=this

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Was Montana's deep completion to Deion Walker in the Blue Gold Game, at 1:48 on the CBS highlight video, a deep cross route? If so, then I bet we'll see some more of it come gamedays.

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and my connection at school is way too slow for me to access it online to double-check. Maybe someone else can chime in. For the record, here are the passing attempts from the spring game:

Diagonal (back or TE runs to the flat)
Seam
Slant
TE Screen
Diagonal (bootleg)
Under (a very shallow crossing route, WR runs about 6 yards downfield, then runs across the field)
Go
Seam
Slant
Seam
Comeback?
TE Screen
Go
RB Screen
Go

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this shit is my life.

If you get a chance, it's easy for you to send and me to download, and are motivated to do so, email me whatever you have.

I sometimes feel like I have a "route tree" growing in my basement (bat cave).

busco21@verizon.net

John

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Because I don't feel like my list of routes necessarily did the job below.

I feel like it has more to do with the way the O is trying to set up the D than it does, necessarily, with the route. A short square in run from certain parts of the field could probably be slow-developing, right? It's just that the deep cross seems to necessitate some time/patience to develop because you're trying to get the deep coverage to run away from it.

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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.

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as I understand it, many times a play will have multiple routes going to multiple levels. To figure out if a play is "slow developing" we would have to know all the routes as well as who was the primary receiver versus a check down. For example, in the spring game, Crist hit Hughes on a short crossing pattern. It was obvious from the play however that we had several deep patterns being run as the entire middle of the field had been cleared of LBs and safeties.

If the QB is under center and takes anything more than a 3 step drop, its "slow developing". If he is in the shotgun and it takes him longer than 2 seconds(?) perhaps that fits our criteria.

Long story short, I don't think we can look only at the route of the receiver targeted with the pass to mine what we are trying to get at. Just a thought.

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I'm sure we could do it if we had the time/energy, but I lack the time for sure. We also lack the all-22 film.

Still, it would be fun to make an estimate, at least.

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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.

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Deep crosses obviously take a long time to develop. Maybe Charlie didn't feel like the line could hold their blocks that long. Watching the above video it's really a great pocket Quinn is working in. Just a thought.

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While the offensive line improved ten-fold from its wretchedness in '07, it still wasn't as reliable as the one in '05. And further, Quinn was known to break free from a few defenders' grasps and either scramble or make a big throw. Clausen really hasn't demonstrated that consistently.

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that one of the things that impressed me the most with the Blue/Gold game was Clausen's pocket awareness. He seemed to move inside the pocket effectively rather then breaking it early.

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We know he wasn't 100% last year...could he just be physically incapable of making that throw?

As an aside, I forgot how nice of a weapon Shelton was.

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I don't think it's him. It would probably be the WR's inexperience.

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2 things our receivers haven't been very good at executing the last 2 years.

That's a really good write up by smart football. I get so geeked out with that stuff. The only scenario I'd have liked to see him discuss is having the deep cross come from the same side as a go, with the go originating from inside the cross, but there are dozens of ways to do it. That's just one of those setups I seem to see used by Florida quite a bit and it makes a lot of defensive backs look dumb and slow.

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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.

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That's what I'm hoping. On one side you have Golden Tate, who is learning how to play WR and could only run a go route during his freshman year, and on the other you have Mike Floyd, who was only a freshman. I feel like I've read somewhere that Kamara was kind of raw, too, since he played in a Wing T system in high school.

Is this the kind of thing you'd now install during the spring? I am hoping so.

On a side note, it is still funny whenever I read that "college defensive coordinators have figured out Weis." No, they haven't. What we ran last year was still missing big pieces of what worked in 2005.

But what concerns me is why they didn't run some of it, especially some of the sprint play action.

Can this offense ever regain its mojo from 2005?

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Perhaps some of the lack of inclusion into the game plan has been a result of our inability to take real 5 or 7 step drops and protect the QB... at least in 2007. Or perhaps it is the defense having 7 guys dropping into passing lanes as in 2008.

Just a quick question Spesh, do you record the number of plays in which our offense is blitzed? It might be informative to see if that changed dramatically over the course of the season (with the shift occurring around the time of the UNC game). Some of that will be driven by the teams we played so you may need to look at the last couple of years to draw meaningful information from it. Anyhow just a thought.

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What ratio of passing plays were "long developing." I don't figure on a primary of a deep cross being slower than a post or a deep hitch, which we've seen Tate run quite a bit. I'll be interested to see the numbers.

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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.

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Give me a list of pass routes/plays that we would consider "long-developing."

Would fades count? To me it seems like the ball spends more time in the air than the QB stands in the pocket, so it wouldn't count.

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like I've not been paying enough attention, but...

Stuff like...

out-and-ups
deep posts
deep flag patterns
hitch and go
slant and out
z-posts
and maybe TE seam routes since they take a while for the TE to clear, usually.

Pretty much anything that requires a step-break by the WR deep or anything that requires the TE to get into the deep zone.

I agree the fade doesn't count.

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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.

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I don't think we've ever run these:

out-and-ups
slant and out

These I can look up without problem.

deep posts
deep flag patterns
and maybe TE seam routes since they take a while for the TE to clear, usually.

Need clarification on these:

hitch and go - we have a "look pass and go" that we've run, but I think you're talking about an 8-yard hitch, then go-- is that right?
z-posts - how are these different from other posts?

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The hitch and go would probably be more 3-5 yard hitch and go. The look-and-go practically works like a fade, I think, as far as time for protection and such.

A z-post looks a bit like a deep cross, but the 2nd cut in is a more obtuse angle, working for more depth downfield than trying to race to the sideline.

I'm sort of surprised we're not showing any out and ups or out and gos. I could swear I saw Golden get a few of these in '08, but I'll believe you since you actually track this stuff and I'm trying to recall thru beer haze.

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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.

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Of course you sounded much more clear in your thoughts.

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I don't know the answer, but it seems just as valid right now to say it's been a problem of experience over talent, or experience over coaching. I just have to look at the end result on this one and say in 07/08, the "little things" that guys like Tim Brown and Jerry Rice were famous for obsessing over in their careers have not been well executed by the ND receivers.

I'm sure if most people look back on their HS careers, in any sport, they can think of little things they were much better about doing as Sr.s than as Fr.s. Coming off the line was a bugaboo for me as a FR/SP. I was much better at it as a JR/SR. I was still painfully slow though.

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Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.

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the Polo Grounds

Someone posted a highlight reel from the Tenn game

Question

I have that down as a slant

Sadly...

Could you define "slow developing" pass play then?

I think it's going to be real hard to capture...

I'm afraid I agree.

Could also be a lack of confidence in the line.

You guys are probably right

On this note, I will say

Could that be a Clausen problem?

Given what we've seen of Clausen's arm strength

Coming off the LOS and making a proper read...

can we blame inexperience more than coaching?

Isn't the deep crossing route a long developing play?

Might also be interesting to know...

I can answer this

Huh, here's an opportunity for me to look...

for starters

I'll take the ones that don't cause problems...

Damn, just beat me.

That certainly could be the case.