more heat on Meyer to OSU

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 14:52 (5313 days ago)

I spent some time looking around Eleven Warriors and O-Zone. The supposed coaching staff:


Urban in fact will be named head coach in a week.
Luke Fickell retained as Asst. Head Coach
Greg Studwara - Offensive Coordinator
DJ Durkin - Defensive Coordinator
Zach Smith - WR Coach
Mickey Marotti - Dir Football Operations
Stan Drayton - retained by OSU - moves from WRs back to RB coach
Gene Smith to be retained but re-assigned.

Most interesting to me is DJ Durkin, the Linebacker coach/Special teams coach for the Gators. Seems like that staff would be a bit light from a defensive perspective.

Saw a fairly decent post from an O-Zone moderator on the situation:


By BCast on 15:19:08 11/22/11

We will have a content item on the front page/ columns and features that will include more information about what we are hearing, but I wanted to share a few things with the message board before it gets that far.

We have talked to some very highly-connected people over the last week, and here is what we were told:

Obviously, there has been contact between Meyer and Ohio State, but clearly no contract had been offered or signed as of yesterday.

It is probable that money has been discussed, which would make sense considering Meyer's recent comments in The Gainesville Sun. Even if money has not been mentioned, those comments certainly came across as a direct communication with Ohio State: "if you want me, I'm listening, but bring your check book."

ESPN and the Michigan Game

We are also hearing that there is fire to the smoke that Meyer was removed from this week's Ohio State-Michigan broadcast because of his interest in coaching the Buckeyes.

Officially, ESPN is couching it as though Meyer doesn't have time to prepare himself to call this game, but that seems a little nonsensical, especially since they plan to have him in the studio this weekend to talk about the rest of the games.

Meyer hired Michigan defensive coordinator Greg Mattison at Florida and he knows both of these programs as well as anyone. He could show up Saturday without looking at one item this week and speak intelligently about both schools.

We are being told that Meyer was pulled from the assignment because he informed the higher-ups at ESPN that he intends to take the Ohio State job. It sounds like they don't want it to look bad on them for having him call the game already having that knowledge.

The Duke Game

At some point, there was a rumor that Meyer would be introduced as the new head coach at Ohio State during halftime of the OSU-Duke basketball game on Nov. 29. Sort of like Jim Tressel a the Michigan game back in January, 2001.

The current situation is much different than that hire, and we have been told that if/when Meyer is introduced, it will most likely not be at the Duke game. First of all, Ohio State has not yet posted the job opening on their website. Once posted, it is supposed to remain open for nine days. We are only seven days away from the Duke game, which will take place in Columbus a week from Tuesday.

That is not the reason, however, we believe Meyer will not be introduced at the game. We have been told that Ohio State does not want to take away from their No. 3-ranked basketball team and the job that Thad Matta is doing with that program.

The Duke game is going to be one of the biggest nights this OSU program has had in a long time, and introducing Meyer as the new head coach at halftime would completely steal the spotlight from Matta and his team. It would lead Sportscenter and be on the front page of every major newspaper, pushing a potential win over Duke to page two.

Herbstreit and Spiels?

Don't jump to believe any of the Kirk Herbstreit rumors just yet. We are being told the former Ohio State quarterback will likely not be leaving ESPN to coach the QBs at Ohio State, whether Meyer is the coach or not. The same goes for Chris Spielman and the linebackers.

If he takes the job in Columbus, we are told Meyer wants to hire a veteran coaching staff that already knows what it's doing. He will have enough on his plate that he doesn't want to get into having to teach these guys how to coach college athletes.

There may be some truth to the rumors that Luke Fickell could remain at Ohio State even if he isn't given the head coaching job. We have been told that there will likely be a place on Meyer's coaching staff for Fickell, if he wants it.

Gene Smith and the NCAA Ruling

Lastly, and we don't feel as certain about this, but we have been told by a number of sources that Ohio State will likely find out their NCAA fate as early as next week. Nothing official will come out until after their Dec. 10 meeting with the NCAA, but with all their contacts, they will already know by then.

We are being told that whenever they decide to post the job opening to their website, they will already "know" what the NCAA ruling. The latest on what we are hearing is that the NCAA will not hit Ohio State with a bowl ban or any other major sanctions that might deter Meyer from accepting the job in Columbus.

As for Gene Smith's fate, we have heard multiple conflicting reports from many different sources about his future at Ohio State. No one seems to know for certain how the University is going to proceed with their current Athletic Director. Those rumors range from him being let go by the end of the year to his being reassigned within the athletic department.

None of the rumors seem strong enough yet, especially as Ohio State awaits that final ruling from the NCAA.

Again, remember, this report is not a prophecy about the future. We don't know exactly what is going to happen with Ohio State's football program. Let's be clear that they are indeed rumors.


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In other OSU news, they've cancelled their series with Tennessee to fit the 9 game B1G schedule.

Brian Billick on The Dan Patrick Show;

by Chris, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 06:29 (5313 days ago) @ HumanRobot

@PauliePabst
Brian Billick on Urban Meyer leaving FLA because he wanted to spend more time with his family..."So now you don't?"

While listening to Urban speak at last year's clinic..

by FunkDoctorSpock, Your Nightmares, B* tches, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 06:45 (5313 days ago) @ Chris

the sense we got was that Meyer realized he was boxed into a corner at Florida - he didn't seem to think much of most of his last staff, citing how at least one of their agents was asking him about golf club memberships or something while negotiating the guys contract, and how "things had gotten out of whack" in college football. By that he likely meant the shitty, selfish attitudes of all the 5 star studs he brought in his last few years (see, the clashes between the 2010 Florida true freshmen and upperclassmen).

I don't think anyone really believed he was done with coaching.

Most head coaches are bullshitters, so I won't give him too much of a hard time. But he really did lay on the slef-righteous schtick.

conspiracy theory time

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 06:17 (5313 days ago) @ HumanRobot

**WARNING: Everything from here on is hypothetical**

How about this: everybody's source on Meyer to OSU is none other than Greg Mattison. Interesting that the story is breaking the week prior to the "Big Game", a match-up that Michigan has done pretty poorly in for the last decade. Mattison "leaks" the story to a couple of his buddies in the media, the current shitstorm we're seeing takes place, OSU's players are distracted and unfocused and unprepared for the game Saturday.

Twitter is blowing up in saying he was hired.

by Pat (Moco), Bar, Urban Chophouse Short North, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 17:31 (5313 days ago) @ HumanRobot

- No text -

Get your yucks in now.

by Bill, Murrieta, CA, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 17:52 (5313 days ago) @ Pat (Moco)

Seriously, I don't know that we had a sufficient enough gap between Tressel and Meyer to see any difference whatsoever from an ND impact perspective. Seems like the status quo is maintained. As long as we're able to continue to recuit the Cincinnati area, we should be fine.

More significant would be the differing offensive systems

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 19:51 (5313 days ago) @ Bill

Assuming Meyer runs his Florida offense I don't think he'll have much of an impact on ND. Defensively there will be an impact but even that is mitigated by the fact that we recruit nationally.

I really think Meyer at OSU hurts Michigan far more than ND.

Personality wise he'll be by far and away the leading (media) light among Big Ten coaches. The rest of those cats will be fighting for airtime in Meyer's somewhat large shadow.

Interesting point

by Pat (Moco), Bar, Urban Chophouse Short North, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 18:21 (5313 days ago) @ Bill

I looked at Ohio State's roster and this is the state-by-state breakdown. Sort of surprising who the second state is, though it's VERY far back:

Ohio - 77
Florida - 9
Pennsylvania - 7
Illinois - 4
Georgia - 3
Texas - 3
Michigan - 3
Maryland - 2
North Carolina - 2
Indiana - 2
Kentucky - 1
California - 1

So from one talent rich state school

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 17:36 (5313 days ago) @ Pat (Moco)

where they don't care if you graduate or discipline players to another.

It is just a wonder that he never came to Notre Dame!

Listen.

by Pat (Moco), Bar, Urban Chophouse Short North, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 17:39 (5313 days ago) @ Jim (fisherj08)

It's not every year that you can have a schedule with Illinois, Indiana, and Purdue.

The Big Ten will be a holiday for Meyer

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 19:59 (5313 days ago) @ Pat (Moco)
edited by hobbs, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 20:26

At UF he had the step in the ring (on field and in recruiting) against 5/6 program that were either heavyweights or bordered on it.

LSU
UT
Georgia
Alabama
Auburn

and if that wasn't enough he also had to beat back two in-state national powers (Miami & FSU).

At OSU Meyer will be the undisputed King of the conference. A conference where IMO he will only have to face one legitimate heavyweight program (Michigan) a year in order to put himself into the national championship picture. On top of that he'll benefit from being king of the most fertile recruiting state in the conference while having the ability and name recognition to recruit nationally.

And best of all he'll pull in 4 million a year. Its free money!

In college football there is only one other idiot-proof setup that rivals OSU's and that is Texas. When you think about it the only thing that really ever stops OSU is scandal. So really if Urbie can keep the guns and ho's at bay he'll be able to win a shitload of game at OSU without suffering a breakdown.

Oh I think Wisconsin will be tough.

by Pat (Moco), Bar, Urban Chophouse Short North, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 20:08 (5313 days ago) @ hobbs

But other than that, I agree with you.

I'll be the hysteric on this one.

by Glass, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:08 (5313 days ago) @ HumanRobot

On paper, it's the best college hire since Saban to Alabama and Walsh to Stanford before that.

I see two main events as the cause of ND's mediocrity over the last 18 years. The first was deciding to rein in Holtz. The second was when the plane came back from Utah coachless. If Kelly doesn't pan out, then Meyer to OSU may be the third.

Maybe I'm just glum this week after watching a dispirited senior day game, but I don't like this hire from ND's perspective at all.

I don't see much headroom here

by JD in Portland @, Portland OR, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 20:09 (5313 days ago) @ Glass

Others have made these points but they need to be emphasized.
OSU didn't fire its coach bcz they had slipped. it's a perennial top 5-10 program. Meyer will keep it there but so what.
It's been decades since we got many players out of that state, certainly very few that OSU offered.
Same as it ever was.
It's very bad for UM and I do like that. They were hoping for a slide and that isn't going to happen now.
In fact it is possible that much like Oregon ignoring kids to get California kids, Meyer could bring a lot of Fla and southern kids in and free up some 4 star Ohio kids for us.

That's a good point.

by Pat (Moco), Bar, Urban Chophouse Short North, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 20:29 (5313 days ago) @ JD in Portland

At Florida, Meyer had to compete with FSU and Miami for instate recruits, whereas in Ohio he could figuratively do what Mack Brown is doing in Texas--take the best instate and a handful from outside. As I posted elsewhere, OSU currently has 77 kids from Ohio on their roster, so Meyer doesn't necessarily need to leave the state (or region, as 10 others are from the midwest, 17 if you count Pennsylvania).

If there's anything I've learned about Ohio State (from being engaged to a Columbus resident) is that the people in that state LOVE Ohio State, almost creepily so. Columbus is solely dedicated to the team--I almost feel bad for the Blue Jackets. I don't think many kids from outside Ohio care that passionately about the program. Granted, it will be the same as it ever was if they become a perennial top-10 program under Urban, in that the top kids will want to go to the best program. If Kelly can duplicate his recruiting success from last year every year, then we don't need to worry about a team that we will never play unless it's in the national title game.

Root for the Browns.

by Glass, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 06:18 (5313 days ago) @ Pat (Moco)

OSU was always the leader in Cleveland, but ND, UM, Pitt, and PSU also recruited pretty well there too. Cleveland is a football town in much the same way that Cincinnati is a baseball town. When the Browns left and then came back in this brutal reincarnation, that left a void that Tressel/OSU were able to fill in Northeast Ohio. If the Browns ever come back (stop laughing), then things will revert to form to a certain extent.

Cincinnati is its own state. Their mayor had "Cincinnati USA" on the letterhead before the governor threatened to cut off state funding. We should continue to do okay there.

As for the rest of Ohio? Forget it.

Meyer would leave the state, though.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 20:36 (5313 days ago) @ Pat (Moco)

Definitely moreso than Tressel has. And as a result, he would likely be competing against ND for top national recruits who are willing to entertain a midwestern destination. I can definitely envision some downside for ND on that front. Cooper did quite well for himself in Florida and California, as the numbers that he put in the NFL will testify.

If he leaves the state, then Kelly can get more from OH

by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 07:39 (5313 days ago) @ KGB

And given his statements about the way that his Florida program starting back-sliding because of the 5-star prima donnas, I wouldn't be surprised if he starts getting away from that particular pool of players anyway.

I'll agree that it's a zero-sum game.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 07:54 (5313 days ago) @ Jeremy (WeIsND)

But I still think that he could make life more difficult for ND than Tressel did. What you said about the pre-Madonnas only further supports the notion that there would be greater overlap with Kelly's targeted "RKGs".

Whatever.

by FunkDoctorSpock, Your Nightmares, B* tches, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 18:59 (5313 days ago) @ Glass
edited by FunkDoctorSpock, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 19:02

ND went out and hired the "Urban Meyer" of 2009. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But there isn't a god damn thing that Meyer achieved in his time at BGS and Utah that Kelly didn't accomplish at CMU and Cincinnati.

Carroll being at USC didnt stand it Harbaugh's way. Saban being at LSU and later Alabama didn't stand in Meyer 1.0. Bo being at Michigan, and Jimmy Johnson down at Miami didn't stop Lou.

If Kelly is going to win big, it's going to happen regardless of where Urban Meyer is coaching.

And I'll be the contrarian

by Pat (Moco), Bar, Urban Chophouse Short North, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:42 (5313 days ago) @ Glass
edited by Pat (Moco), Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:46

With how disciplined his players were down in Gainesville and with OSU now having the eyes of the NCAA on them, I'd guess it would only be a matter of time before they would be a repeat offender.

That, or he'll be dead from his heart problems.

even with all his success there are questions

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:52 (5313 days ago) @ Pat (Moco)

-Meyer always had strong defensive assistants at Florida: Chuck Heater, Greg Mattison, and Charlie Strong to name a few. Will his new crop be up to the same level?
-I think 2009 showed us Meyer is not infallible; without a great QB he might look fairly ordinary.
-By all accounts he won't be bringing the same intensity to this position.
-As stupid as this sounds, OSU still adores Tressel.

it'd be a pisser alright

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:25 (5313 days ago) @ Glass

A few thoughts:
-I suppose I've moved past "bummed" and into "denial" in the sense that it seems like Meyer just never was going to come to Notre Dame. He chose Florida over us, partially on the advice of his father and Bob Davie and partially on his own experience.
-Hires like Meyer and Saban and Walsh really are a perfect storm of factors. To get the same opportunity to hire Meyer, we would have had to stuck with Weis for two more seasons. When Weis was fired, Meyer's health issues and potential retirement weren't on the radar. For a crack at Saban, we'd have had to fired Weis after 2006. Walsh had been retired to the booth for several years before going to Stanford.
-I'm still leery of pro coaches, although that might be a venue to consider if things don't work out with Kelly. I think even coaches as great as Dungy and Cowher would have to adjust to some aspects of the college game. NFL head coaching experience isn't enough to ensure success; see Wanny and Mike Sherman.
-Heard Gerry Dinardo on the radio today. He made the claim that coaches really don't leave BCS schools for other BCS schools all that often. Only real recent examples are Dantonio, Kiffin, and Kelly.

So what you're saying is

by Pete, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 17:02 (5313 days ago) @ HumanRobot

we're still paying the price for not giving Willingham his full five years?

oddly enough you could make that argument

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 05:59 (5313 days ago) @ Pete

Sort of a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern layer of fatalism applies:

1) Fire Willingham when we do, but apparently incur the wrath of college coaches and be forced to fire an alum.
2) Let Willingham have his five years, have a shot at Saban but probably miss because our talent is so woeful at that point.

The only winning move is not to play?

Les Miles is another example.

by Silk, St. Louis, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:32 (5313 days ago) @ HumanRobot

I realize he's been at LSU for what feels like an eternity.

more

by Jay, San Diego, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:40 (5313 days ago) @ Silk

(not counting guys who were fired and resurfaced, like Ty or Zook)

O'Brien
Edsall
Rodriguez (to Michigan)
Nutt
Petrino

I'm sure there's more.

Petrino actually had that weird sidestep into Atlanta.

by Silk, St. Louis, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:43 (5313 days ago) @ Jay

But yeah, it's a longer list than Gerry might think.

I think Dinardo was only looking at the last few years

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:53 (5313 days ago) @ Silk

- No text -

He specifically said the last two years.

by Frank, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 16:21 (5313 days ago) @ HumanRobot

- No text -

oh yeah

by Jay, San Diego, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:49 (5313 days ago) @ Silk

I thought of a couple more:

Franchione
Mike Price
Mack Brown
Saban to LSU

it's almost a no-brainer, approaching the Saban hire

by Jay, San Diego, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:20 (5313 days ago) @ Glass
edited by Jay, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:35

Urban needs to account for his health issues and his I'm-quitting-no-I'm-not schizophrenia from a couple of years ago, but yeah, this is about as safe a hire as there's been in a while.

Reminds me of this exercise. Urban-to-OSU would probably grade out #2 on the risk meter.
http://bluegraysky.com/forum/index.php?id=41733

Kinda just glazing over the health thing.

by domer.mq ⌂ @, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 16:59 (5313 days ago) @ Jay

You don't just leave the Florida coaching job, at his age, with 2 rings, for something minor. Or even, probably, moderate.

That "health" thing - whatever the hell it actually was - is a big freaking deal.

--
Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.

That would certainly be an issue.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 17:50 (5313 days ago) @ domer.mq

And although it's true that it's better to be "the guy that follows the guy who follows the legend", Tressel's body is still barely cold. That's a challenging legacy to live up to, and I don't expect that the fans here would give him a three-year grace period just because he's Urban Fucking Meyer. Further, a big part of what made him a great coach was his intensity and how he immersed himself in the job. Does anyone think that's really going to work for him..."Oh, I'll just dial it back"? I have a feeling we saw what happens when he tries to go 80% in Gainesville last year, and it sure didn't knock anyone's socks off. Things would be easier in the Big Suck, but not that much easier. He would have to go full-bore to live up to expectations, and I doubt that the health issues that compelled him to leave Florida will just disappear.

Still, I'd prefer that he didn't take the job. He's a proven winner who will take a hunk out of Kelly's ass on the recruiting trail, the fans will be insufferable about it and the bizarro-karmic aspect that hobbs mentioned the other day rubs me the wrong way. If there's any justice, OSU will get rapped but good by the NCAA, and Meyer will decide that it's too much too soon.

Interesting looking at how much changed in a year

by CW (Rakes) @, Harlan County, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:56 (5313 days ago) @ Jay

Nutt went from slightly underperforming to being run out of town. Sarkisian went from about even to message boards comparing it to the Ty Era. Johnson probably held steady, but a lot depends on UGA and the bowl game.

And if he maintains his current trajectory, Kiffin will be adding his name to the "Well above expectations" list.

Is that the Alabama Saban hire or the Texas one?

by Greg, seemingly ranch, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:48 (5313 days ago) @ Jay

You know, the $100 million/10 year hire that is coming next week, just prior to him finding out whether or not his team will be playing for another national title?

I guess that's why it's so tough to get a legitimate top-tier coach to move schools. The guy is either building toward a season that he thinks will be great, in such a season, or just coming off such a season. And his school has no reason to let him go. So all you can ply him with are (a) money or (b) promises of some kind of personal fulfillment. Of those, (b) seems to be the one most likely to get the kind of coach who would work out well in the long run at ND, because a guy who would leave someplace else just for money would leave ND just for money. And if he'd leave someplace else just for money at a time when he was either building toward something special or in the middle of a special run, then he'd leave ND just for money at a similar time.

Is that what we want?

I think for any coach with competing offers in front of him

by Jay, San Diego, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:52 (5313 days ago) @ Greg

Personal salary is probably a factor, but winning potential probably trumps everything.

he'd be crazy to take the job before

by Jay, San Diego, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:07 (5313 days ago) @ HumanRobot
edited by Jay, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:10

knowing whether the NCAA is going to drop the hammer, wouldn't he?

yes

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 15:13 (5313 days ago) @ Jay

Another nugget I found was this...

By BCast on 15:49:01 11/22/11
[In reply to "OSU is supposed to have another hearing of sorts before the NCAA committee on infractions..." by es98, posted at 15:25:20 11/22/11]

That Ohio State will likely hear next week. Nothing official until December but with all their contacts, they will know.

Stuff might start to leak out before that, the key will be once they post the job, they will "know" the ruling.

which is somewhat believable.

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